Author: SCI Members Mailing List
Subject: Coping with non-responses - Thanks Daniel Baldwin, great advice
Always keep plugging! And see-hear my works on vimeo.
My thanks also to John Huenemann, whose comments remind me of a story I once heard about how Halsey Stevens approached publishers with a new piece. For each piece, he'd make a list of possible publishers, and keep it to hand so that when the piece was rejected by the first publisher on his list, he could turn it around immediately to the second one on his list, when rejected by the second turn it around to the third, etc.
What I took away from that story was that if Halsey Stevens was still getting rejection letters from publishers, maybe I should keep plugging too!
All best, Jonathan--- Jonathan Santore 6 Texas Hill Road Plymouth, NH 03264-4226 (603) 536-1558 jonathan at jonathansantore.com www.jonathansantore.com constantlylearningcomposition.blogspot.com
"Write music from this day forward until you die, love your work, honor your profession, and be flexible in the way you create yourself." -- Tina Davidson
On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:58:19 -0500, SCI Members Mailing List wrote:
I'm right in line with Huenemann. Spot on.
Kenn McSperitt www.KennMcSperitt.com
On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 1:01 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Hi everyone-
I like to send a submission to something and thenimmediately move on andforget about it. My coping strategy, especially for negative responses, is to already be working on other musical tasks. If Musical Organization™responds with a "no", it feels great to not remember having submitted to it in the first place. Same thing goes for non-responses. The time that I spend waiting for an answer is time that could be spent practicing, composing, or starting potential collaborations with other musicians in my community.
-John
John Huenemann /'hyuː•nə•mən/ www.johnhuenemann.com
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:30 AM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Thank you for your warm and generous insights Rain. Many thanks to all who responded to Dr. Perttu's inquiry. Excellent discussion topic.
Warm wishes to all, Daniel Baldwin, DMA
On Oct 19, 2017, at 8:53 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Hi all, Thanks, Daniel for this great clear, concise advice. I happen to agree with all your points and good to get your references for timeframes.
I do feel it is definitely worthwhile to initiate unsolicited contact with performers. I have often looked up a particular musician or ensemble’s website and contact info, after genuinely being impressed watching a concert performance video, or hearing about a concert program that seems in line with my own music. And yes, agreed...
Be very positive in every correspondence! A positive enquiry will more often than not be met with a positive response (even if the answer is no...which doesn't mean forever...they might just be all booked up for now and you have just put yourself on their radar...they might just look you up!).
I have had musicians contact me even several years after my initial inquiry with a renewed interest in performing one of my works. I have also sent emails to reconnect with musicians that have performed my music several years earlier and have gotten very nice emails in response, along the lines of “how nice to hear from you…” etc.
I also know from experience that life intercedes in unanticipated ways.
You never know why someone will not respond. It could be anything from disinterest to schedule (for example we all know the time burden of putting on an opera) to personal tragedy. Not personal against you or your work.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Best, Rain
On Oct 19, 2017, at 8:28 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Good evening everyone,
This is, indeed, a very worthy topic of discussion. I will throw in my two cents below with the hopes that it will be helpful. I am a full time composer working and living off of commission, royalties, and engagements, so I understand well the frustration of non response.
First, I would give publishers 4 to 6 weeks to respond. If they have not responded in that time, you have your answer. Repeat inquiries sometimes net a response, but no more than one follow up. Once that time table has passed, move on to the next publisher.
For a performer, I usually give a week for response followed by one follow up if I receive no answer. Then I move on to the next performer. Performers will, in most cases, not mind an email or two (if they do mind, they will let you know, in which case you were probably not going to be working with them in the future anyway...their interests may lie elsewhere), however you can annoy them with repeated desperate emails demanding or pleading for a response. Be very positive in every correspondence! A positive enquiry will more often than not be met with a positive response (even if the answer is no...which doesn't mean forever...they might just be all booked up for now and you have just put yourself on their radar...they might just look you up!).
With absolutely no offense intended, i tend to disagree with the notion of never submitting unsolicited materials. There is some truth to the saying "people don't know what they like, they like what they know". A bold cold contact can net wonderful results if handled positively and professionally. Those who are not okay with an unsolicited offer will decline and, at worst, express their disapproval. Apologize for your intrusion, wish them all good things, and move on. The answer will always be no if you do not ask or they are unaware you are out there doing great things!
Unfortunately, there is no textbook way to deal with rejection or non response. It is specific to each individual. It hurts and bothers everyone. My way has just been to develop thick skin, confidence that what I am doing is still worthwhile (and I will eventually find those likeminded individuals), and that it is never personal. You never know why someone will not respond. It could be anything from disinterest to schedule (for example we all know the time burden of putting on an opera) to personal tragedy. Not personal against you or your work. You have done your due diligence, so move on to the next party!
Thanks so much for taking the time to read my short essay. I hope it serves to help those struggling with this issue. If I can help any individual further, please do not hesitate to contact me privately. You may feel free to find me on Facebook and message me.
All of my best wishes for success, Daniel Baldwin, DMA
On Oct 19, 2017, at 5:35 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
It's not clear to me if the original query was about sending things off unsolicited or in response to a published call.
I never send things unsolicited.
If it's in response to a publicized call for scores, I agree that we are owed the courtesy of an answer. But if they ignore me, then I ignore them.
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 1:20 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
I never send anything unsolicited. John J. Lucania SCI Member
Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
Thanks, Bill.
Does anyone else have any coping strategies? Even if there is no helpful resource based on research, what works for you?
Again, I am a pro at coping with rejections. It’s the non-response that is very difficult.
Please feel free to e-mail me personally at perttude at westminster.edu.
Thanks, Dan
Dr. Daniel Perttu Chair, School of Music Associate Professor of Music Music Theory/Composition Area Head Westminster College 319 S. Market St. New Wilmington, PA 16172 724-946-7024 www.westminster.edu/music
From: <scimembers-bounces at societyofcomposers.org> on behalf of "scimembers at societyofcomposers.org" <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> Reply-To: "scimembers at societyofcomposers.org" <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> Date: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 5:45 PM To: "scimembers at societyofcomposers.org" <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> Subject: Re: [scimembers] Coping with non-responses - is there a helpful resource based on research?
I sympathize with you. This neglect of publishers and performers is the hight of rudeness, disrespect andhumane responsibility. I am sorry that I don't have an answer. Bill MacSems
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 7:30 AM, SCI Members Mailing List<scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Colleagues,
Can anyone point me to a good resource, based on research, on how to handle corresponding with/calling/etc. a performer, publisher, etc., from which one wants to get a performance or a publication? I am not talking about standard calls for scores that publish their review process. I’m talking about the situations in which there is no published review process or“we will respond by ____ date.”
Essentially, I am interested in the psychology of corresponding with those who are reviewing your music for inclusion in a program or in a publication.
More specifically:
1. If I submit a score to be reviewed by a publisher or a performer, how long should I wait before following up with it when it doesn't publish the process by which it reviews things (if it even has a process)? 2. Or should I even follow up? Following up shows interest and keeps one's name in front of the entity to which one has submitted, but, of course, one doesn't the publisher/performer/etc. to feel nagged. 3. If I do follow up, are there any sophisticated ways of phrasing the follow-up to obtain a response? 4. When does a composer become irritating to a reviewer?
Also, does anyone have any resources on how to cope with performers/publishers/etc. who do not respond? I can deal with rejections because at least then I KNOW. But, hearing nothing is difficult because I find it extremely difficult to cope with the uncertainty.Ideas?
Feel free to write to me atperttude at westminster.edu privately if you wish.
Thanks, Dan Perttu
Dr. Daniel Perttu Chair, School of Music Associate Professor of Music Music Theory/Composition Area Head Westminster College 319 S. Market St. New Wilmington, PA 16172 724-946-7024 www.westminster.edu/music
Subject: Coping with non-responses - Thanks Daniel Baldwin, great advice
Always keep plugging! And see-hear my works on vimeo.
My thanks also to John Huenemann, whose comments remind me of a story I once heard about how Halsey Stevens approached publishers with a new piece. For each piece, he'd make a list of possible publishers, and keep it to hand so that when the piece was rejected by the first publisher on his list, he could turn it around immediately to the second one on his list, when rejected by the second turn it around to the third, etc.
What I took away from that story was that if Halsey Stevens was still getting rejection letters from publishers, maybe I should keep plugging too!
All best, Jonathan--- Jonathan Santore 6 Texas Hill Road Plymouth, NH 03264-4226 (603) 536-1558 jonathan at jonathansantore.com www.jonathansantore.com constantlylearningcomposition.blogspot.com
"Write music from this day forward until you die, love your work, honor your profession, and be flexible in the way you create yourself." -- Tina Davidson
On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:58:19 -0500, SCI Members Mailing List wrote:
I'm right in line with Huenemann. Spot on.
Kenn McSperitt www.KennMcSperitt.com
On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 1:01 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Hi everyone-
I like to send a submission to something and thenimmediately move on andforget about it. My coping strategy, especially for negative responses, is to already be working on other musical tasks. If Musical Organization™responds with a "no", it feels great to not remember having submitted to it in the first place. Same thing goes for non-responses. The time that I spend waiting for an answer is time that could be spent practicing, composing, or starting potential collaborations with other musicians in my community.
-John
John Huenemann /'hyuː•nə•mən/ www.johnhuenemann.com
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 12:30 AM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Thank you for your warm and generous insights Rain. Many thanks to all who responded to Dr. Perttu's inquiry. Excellent discussion topic.
Warm wishes to all, Daniel Baldwin, DMA
On Oct 19, 2017, at 8:53 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Hi all, Thanks, Daniel for this great clear, concise advice. I happen to agree with all your points and good to get your references for timeframes.
I do feel it is definitely worthwhile to initiate unsolicited contact with performers. I have often looked up a particular musician or ensemble’s website and contact info, after genuinely being impressed watching a concert performance video, or hearing about a concert program that seems in line with my own music. And yes, agreed...
Be very positive in every correspondence! A positive enquiry will more often than not be met with a positive response (even if the answer is no...which doesn't mean forever...they might just be all booked up for now and you have just put yourself on their radar...they might just look you up!).
I have had musicians contact me even several years after my initial inquiry with a renewed interest in performing one of my works. I have also sent emails to reconnect with musicians that have performed my music several years earlier and have gotten very nice emails in response, along the lines of “how nice to hear from you…” etc.
I also know from experience that life intercedes in unanticipated ways.
You never know why someone will not respond. It could be anything from disinterest to schedule (for example we all know the time burden of putting on an opera) to personal tragedy. Not personal against you or your work.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Best, Rain
On Oct 19, 2017, at 8:28 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Good evening everyone,
This is, indeed, a very worthy topic of discussion. I will throw in my two cents below with the hopes that it will be helpful. I am a full time composer working and living off of commission, royalties, and engagements, so I understand well the frustration of non response.
First, I would give publishers 4 to 6 weeks to respond. If they have not responded in that time, you have your answer. Repeat inquiries sometimes net a response, but no more than one follow up. Once that time table has passed, move on to the next publisher.
For a performer, I usually give a week for response followed by one follow up if I receive no answer. Then I move on to the next performer. Performers will, in most cases, not mind an email or two (if they do mind, they will let you know, in which case you were probably not going to be working with them in the future anyway...their interests may lie elsewhere), however you can annoy them with repeated desperate emails demanding or pleading for a response. Be very positive in every correspondence! A positive enquiry will more often than not be met with a positive response (even if the answer is no...which doesn't mean forever...they might just be all booked up for now and you have just put yourself on their radar...they might just look you up!).
With absolutely no offense intended, i tend to disagree with the notion of never submitting unsolicited materials. There is some truth to the saying "people don't know what they like, they like what they know". A bold cold contact can net wonderful results if handled positively and professionally. Those who are not okay with an unsolicited offer will decline and, at worst, express their disapproval. Apologize for your intrusion, wish them all good things, and move on. The answer will always be no if you do not ask or they are unaware you are out there doing great things!
Unfortunately, there is no textbook way to deal with rejection or non response. It is specific to each individual. It hurts and bothers everyone. My way has just been to develop thick skin, confidence that what I am doing is still worthwhile (and I will eventually find those likeminded individuals), and that it is never personal. You never know why someone will not respond. It could be anything from disinterest to schedule (for example we all know the time burden of putting on an opera) to personal tragedy. Not personal against you or your work. You have done your due diligence, so move on to the next party!
Thanks so much for taking the time to read my short essay. I hope it serves to help those struggling with this issue. If I can help any individual further, please do not hesitate to contact me privately. You may feel free to find me on Facebook and message me.
All of my best wishes for success, Daniel Baldwin, DMA
On Oct 19, 2017, at 5:35 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
It's not clear to me if the original query was about sending things off unsolicited or in response to a published call.
I never send things unsolicited.
If it's in response to a publicized call for scores, I agree that we are owed the courtesy of an answer. But if they ignore me, then I ignore them.
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 1:20 PM, SCI Members Mailing List <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
I never send anything unsolicited. John J. Lucania SCI Member
Sent from my LG Escape2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
Thanks, Bill.
Does anyone else have any coping strategies? Even if there is no helpful resource based on research, what works for you?
Again, I am a pro at coping with rejections. It’s the non-response that is very difficult.
Please feel free to e-mail me personally at perttude at westminster.edu.
Thanks, Dan
Dr. Daniel Perttu Chair, School of Music Associate Professor of Music Music Theory/Composition Area Head Westminster College 319 S. Market St. New Wilmington, PA 16172 724-946-7024 www.westminster.edu/music
From: <scimembers-bounces at societyofcomposers.org> on behalf of "scimembers at societyofcomposers.org" <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> Reply-To: "scimembers at societyofcomposers.org" <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> Date: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 at 5:45 PM To: "scimembers at societyofcomposers.org" <scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> Subject: Re: [scimembers] Coping with non-responses - is there a helpful resource based on research?
I sympathize with you. This neglect of publishers and performers is the hight of rudeness, disrespect andhumane responsibility. I am sorry that I don't have an answer. Bill MacSems
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 7:30 AM, SCI Members Mailing List<scimembers at societyofcomposers.org> wrote:
Colleagues,
Can anyone point me to a good resource, based on research, on how to handle corresponding with/calling/etc. a performer, publisher, etc., from which one wants to get a performance or a publication? I am not talking about standard calls for scores that publish their review process. I’m talking about the situations in which there is no published review process or“we will respond by ____ date.”
Essentially, I am interested in the psychology of corresponding with those who are reviewing your music for inclusion in a program or in a publication.
More specifically:
1. If I submit a score to be reviewed by a publisher or a performer, how long should I wait before following up with it when it doesn't publish the process by which it reviews things (if it even has a process)? 2. Or should I even follow up? Following up shows interest and keeps one's name in front of the entity to which one has submitted, but, of course, one doesn't the publisher/performer/etc. to feel nagged. 3. If I do follow up, are there any sophisticated ways of phrasing the follow-up to obtain a response? 4. When does a composer become irritating to a reviewer?
Also, does anyone have any resources on how to cope with performers/publishers/etc. who do not respond? I can deal with rejections because at least then I KNOW. But, hearing nothing is difficult because I find it extremely difficult to cope with the uncertainty.Ideas?
Feel free to write to me atperttude at westminster.edu privately if you wish.
Thanks, Dan Perttu
Dr. Daniel Perttu Chair, School of Music Associate Professor of Music Music Theory/Composition Area Head Westminster College 319 S. Market St. New Wilmington, PA 16172 724-946-7024 www.westminster.edu/music